So how about those immigrants?

Do you like listening to the news and politics everyday, just because you think it's interesting to know how our government is one step nearer to starting WW3? Discuss those issues here.

So how about those immigrants?

Postby andrwfields on Sat May 20, 2006 10:50 am

I'm trying to decide how I feel about the new Immigration laws that Congress is trying to pass.

Should we really have our National Guard stationed at the Mexico/US border 24/7? Why not the US/Canadian border too?

Should Congress pass a law making English the official language? And did anybody catch that one stating that the National Anthem can only be sang in English?

Anbody else got any odd Immigration laws that they've heard about recently?
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Postby chad_ghost on Sat May 20, 2006 11:19 am

i dont really have a stance.

i believe this is just a diversion from something the government is trying to hide :shifty:





i dont know what im talking about :?:
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Postby ColtsFan76 on Sat May 20, 2006 11:54 am

I think the Immigration laws recently proposed also included the Canadian border also. Though i am sure most of the resources would be focused on the Mexican border.

I have felt for a long time that the national language should be English. We are a melting pot, but we are also one nation. If anyone moves to France, they are expected to learn French. I don't understand why we have to politically correct about our heritage.

I have no problem with people singing the national anthem in another language when it is used as a song in general. However, when used in official ceremonies, it should only be sung in English.

As far as the immigration stance, it needs reform. I am not in favor of a general amnesty for illegal immigrants currently in the country. What I would be in favor of is some sort of abbreviated means to expedite legalization. Maybe also some means of counting years in the country against the years needed to gain citizenship (though maybe a requirement of still waiting 1 or 2 years if they already have been in this country beyond the minimum requirement). But really, the tears about families being seperated because one was illegal and is now being deported doesn't effect me. They broke the law and they should have done it right the first time.
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Postby Skyfire on Sat May 20, 2006 1:33 pm

Unfortunately, it appears that the only way to even slow illegal immigration is to start taking more serious measures.

Anyway.....

1. National Guard: According to the plan, most of the NG units sent down to the border will serve as a support unit for the Border Patrol. Their purpose will be to handle intelligence and logistics so that the BP can focus on actually catching people.

2. National language: I agree that as a nation we need to have a single unifying language. If people have to learn the national language, then it will encourage new arrivals to integrate. Not only that, but it'll save the government (at all levels) a bunch of money because they won't have to print forms in multiple languages.

3. Amnesty: I don't like it, but there's too many illegals in the nation to simply uproot them all and ship them back. This is the next best thing. However, I would make the amnesty dependent upon them learning English.

4 Tougher laws: Due to their status, illegal immigrants are in a bind when it comes to reporting workplace abuses. If they don't report, they suffer. If they do, they risk deportation. Many businesses know this and so deliberately attempt to hire illegals. This right here is reason enough to have a get-tough policy in regards to employment of illegals.
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Postby camper on Mon May 22, 2006 5:59 am

I'm pretty much in agreement with Skyfire and Bri.

All things being equal, I think everyone should be able to migrate to whatever country they choose, be it here or anywhere else. But it needs to be controlled and verified, that the person in question isn't a criminal on the run or trying to avoid some legal debts. Right now, that isn't the case.

For the people who are here now illegally? I don't know. Part of me says to ship 'em back and let them restart the process from the beginning but that's not realistic either. At a minimum I would suggest a period of probation where if they are found guilty of a crime (even as minimal as shoplifting) then they are returned to their country of origin. Perhaps it's written that way as is, I really don't know.

There is reform being worked to hold employers accountable for who they hire, and since my parents own a business doing the type of work that many new and/or uneducated immigrants tend to go for (unskilled labor) it's really not unreasonable or difficult as they check what they're supposed to now. If they wanted to hire illegals, it would be easy to do so but since they're honest, they don't.

Personally, I think overseas outsourcing is hurting the economy more than opening the bordes and letting every mexican who wants to come over and work.

I'm also joining the bandwagon that Enlish be the 'official' language. Yeah, it was almost German. Or French. Or whatever. Who cares, almost then doesn't count because right now is right now. My mothers family was here before PA was given to William Penn, and even they had to adapt into the country.

What bugs me the most, is that people want to come here becuase it's the 'best country to live' and then they don't want to participate in the processes, or adhere to the laws that make it so.

We as a country need to decide...who do we go out of our way to satisfy and protect, the people who are already citizens or the ones who may/may not intend to become one?

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Postby Skyfire on Mon May 22, 2006 6:44 am

Personally, I think overseas outsourcing is hurting the economy more than opening the bordes and letting every mexican who wants to come over and work.


Outsourcing is another matter entirely, for the simple fact that it's often indicative of a much larger series of problems - some of which the company has limited control over.

Outsourcing is done as a money-saver, so before you criticize the company you need to weigh the expenses of keeping it in the country vs. sending it elsewhere. :wink:
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Postby camper on Mon May 22, 2006 8:05 am

Skyfire wrote:
Personally, I think overseas outsourcing is hurting the economy more than opening the bordes and letting every mexican who wants to come over and work.


Outsourcing is another matter entirely, for the simple fact that it's often indicative of a much larger series of problems - some of which the company has limited control over.

Outsourcing is done as a money-saver, so before you criticize the company you need to weigh the expenses of keeping it in the country vs. sending it elsewhere. :wink:


Ever hear the illustration about how young children, when asked if they would like a single piece of candy right now, or 10 boxes of the same in two months time will take the single piece right now?

While it is a money saver right now, it has long term ramifications which will cost us far more in the future. Right now we're outsourcing portions of our work, what do you think will happen to our country and it's economy when ALL of it is outsourced?

Granted, there are serveral factors that result in a service being farmed out to the lowest bidder but to make the assumption that it's 'good business' is being short sighted by putting the focus on short term gains rather than long term ramifications.

As these '3rd world countries' gain more economic power by profiting from outsourcing, eventually the savings we're experiencing will shrink as the wages there increase in order to offer competitive payment to their employees. That, and as they increase their consumption of resources the bottom line price will also increase, as demand for the same resources will invariably rise.

Perfect example now is China. They're part of the reason we're flirting with $3.00 per gallon in many parts of the country, they're using more resources as their average standard of living is rising due to their gain in economic power.

And look at the medical career field, India is booming as a mecca for hich cost medical operations which will cost a fortune here. As the standard of living increases in India, do you suspect that they will continue to be better priced than here?

Not that it really matters, very little is produced in the US anymore anyway and what's left is decreasing, not increasing. There is nothing here that can't be done elsewhere for less as corporations in recent years have done well to prove.

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Postby Skyfire on Mon May 22, 2006 2:57 pm

Granted, there are serveral factors that result in a service being farmed out to the lowest bidder but to make the assumption that it's 'good business' is being short sighted by putting the focus on short term gains rather than long term ramifications.


I never said that it was "good business."

I just simply said that the matter wasn't as black & white as people want to make it out to be.
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Postby the pyromaniac on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:45 pm

I'm VERY opinionated on this subject, as you might guess. Here are my thoughts:

With reference to English as the official language, I thought it was until I was 21. I believe it should be legally mandated as such. Even my wife, who has only been speaking English since the day she got off the plane in 1999, has stated she thinks English should be the official language and that all immigrants should be required to learn to speak said language.

In terms of making it easier to get citizenship if you came here illegally, [words that aren't appropriate on this board or anywhere else] NO! What we need to do is make it easier for those people who are here legally from a friendly nation (i.e. Brasil like my wife, Peru like my friend German, etc) to become citizens. There is a nightmarish scenario involving years of legal red tape and intense scrutiny of your personal life. There is little to no incentive to do it the right way any more. :(

If you are of Hispanic/Latino heritage, I apologize in advance if I offend you in any way with what I am about to say. There is a superminority of Spanish-speakers in this country right now with almost no incentive to assimilate into our culture the way previous waves of immigrants from Ireland, Poland, Italy, India, Japan, Korea, etc. have done. Most of these people have learned the language and come to identify themselves as Americans, and contributed to the greatness of our little melting pot that we've got going here. With this wave of Hispanic immigration, this is not happening and it bothers me. My wife is beginning to consider herself an American who happens to have been born in Brasil, and our daughter is being raised to appreciate and identify with both sides of her heritage. It just bothers me when no effort is made... :?
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