I Voted Yes!!!

Do you like listening to the news and politics everyday, just because you think it's interesting to know how our government is one step nearer to starting WW3? Discuss those issues here.

Re: I Voted Yes!!!

Postby destros_elite on Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:44 pm

I agree, Rev. We should never sugar coat sin or hesitate to call sin "sin". But we MUST make a distinction between "sin" and the "sinner", reaching out as a lighthouse (I liked how you put that :D ), letting Jesus shine through us. What you shared is a great example of how you left no doubts that homosexuality was a sin, but you still remained a friend to this individual. And what happened? Jesus changed his heart just like He did yours and mine! :D
For some reason many Christians view homosexuality and divorce as the two biggun's when it comes to sin and tend to brand people who have been or are involved in such. I've always wondered why...
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Re: I Voted Yes!!!

Postby Darko on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:22 am

destros_elite wrote:
But why then does the California Supreme Court have to get involved? Because people are challenging the validity of it. How could it be invalid?

That gets into some tricky issues, but not everything that gets voted in is necessarily constitutional. Think Jim Crow laws prior to the civil rights movement. Many of them were voted into law, but deprived citizens of basic rights, so they were declared unconstitutional. Now, to do this in the case of prop 8, they would need to prove that a) homosexuality is a 'from birth' state and not a lifestyle choice and b) that people have the fundamental right to marry and c) that marriage is about love regardless of gender. I'm not voicing opinions on it either way, but that's what they'd have to do.

I understand that you were talking about the legality of same-sex marriage. I said in my first post that the heart of the matter is homosexuality itself. I know that your post was about the legality of same-sex marriage. I just don't see how Christians can have a problem with a law that supports what God's Word says.

My problems with it...

-We live in a secular nation: It goes against the fundamentals of the way this country's government was set up. The constitution does not recognize an official religion, therefore our laws have to be made not based on religious convictions but on societal good. The Bible tells us that we must submit to the governments that have been given authority over us. We can't bend the rules of the constitution just because it suits us in this situation.

-We are not saved by works alone: If you could prove that by forbidding non-Christians to do things that God has declared sinful, they would gain access to salvation, then by all means, legislate away. But you could write and pass laws forbidding everything up to and including wearing fabric made with two different kinds of fibers and that still wouldn't save people who haven't accepted Christ. You can force people to behave in moral ways, but if they don't have Christ, they're just putting on a charade.

-Christians do not need legal restrictions against immoral behavior: God's law trumps human law. We all know that, and we practice it quite a lot, I'm hoping. There are many things that are perfectly legal in the US that go against God's commandments, and Christians respond by (hopefully) not engaging in those activities. Adultery is not illegal, but I remain faithful to my wife because I made a pact with her and God to do so. You're allowed to worship false idols in America, but I do not, because God has forbidden it. Christians don't need earthly authorities telling them what is and isn't moral; we already have an ultimate source for that information.

-It sets a dangerous precedent: You're in favor of laws against homosexual marriage because they agree with what you see to be the will of God. But what happens when someone with a different interpretation of the Bible wants to make something you think of as not immoral illegal? Forget other religions, or even feuds between the Christian denominations. Go to any church and ask everyone there their opinion on big moral issues; I guarantee you that you'll get different answers.
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Re: I Voted Yes!!!

Postby RevSears on Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:28 am

destros_elite wrote:For some reason many Christians view homosexuality and divorce as the two biggun's when it comes to sin and tend to brand people who have been or are involved in such. I've always wondered why...

I think it's cause we are easy targets (divorcee here)
Homosexuality because it's a sin, isn't going to have a huge voice of defense in the church. It gives people a group to rally against w/o offending church members and allows them to blame the current state of things on their sin (check the bible, does the world really change must on sinners actions? or our obedience?)
W/ Divorcee's i think it stems from a few things. 1) the missunderstanding of timothy's literal one woman man creates a 2nd class christian male who can't hold any office. This allows those who don't fit that role to feel better about themselves and hold on to power. I'm going to be brutaly honest out of the churches i know and have been involved 3 out of the 4 deacons i've known really well only have their jobs because they have not been divorced and 2 of those 3 have committed some other awful atrocities and really done damage to their churches. I myself have been the target some horrible things, and talked about just because my wife left me. WHOM I DID NOTHING WRONG TOO. I was told early on from her I had to mind or she would divorce me and I couldn't preach. Somehow it's still me fault in a lot of peoples eyes, that way regardless of call or talent they can keep their position. People i once preached to, ignored me when we meet in public just because I was divorced. Not all but it's a big issue with one Church. I watched a man who went the same thing (before me) literally run out of a church and not even allowed to teach sunday school because he was divorced. All this hatred came from local southern baptist churches, whom on multiple occasions let adultery(even pornography on the part of local Association director) slide even when the preacher was the guilty party.

Scape goats make us feel better about ourselves, it's sad but it's how a lot of people operate.

I realized i went of an a big tandum there. I realize this was probably a local issue and not one everywhere and involves a few local very entrenched family control churches.
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