Predestination

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Re: Predestination

Postby destros_elite on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:30 am

RevSears wrote:If Calvanism was true, i would still love God, but i wouldn't bother working for him anymore. I love my wife and i've been helping out around the house whle she is working on long hours. Love her or not, if i knew we had, say a maid , and that all those dishes were going to be done anyways, i would spend my time enjoying the day instead.


I disagree with you here, Rev. If Calvinism is true, I too, would still love God, but I would continue to work for Him and serve Him still. Why? Because He has commanded me to do so. If the LORD asked you to do something for no other reason than that He wanted to see you do it, would you do it? I hope you would. After all, He is still our Lord. The fact that He allows us to take part in leading someone to salvation is a gift in and of itself (if anyone has ever had the privlege of leading someone to Christ then you know exacty what I mean) and is one for which we will be rewarded for. Do not forget that our work for the Lord WILL be rewarded.

So whether Calvinism is true or not, does not make Jesus any less my precious Lord and Savior. So I would continue to serve Him in obedience to His word.
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Re: Predestination

Postby RevSears on Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:05 pm

destros_elite wrote:
RevSears wrote:If Calvanism was true, i would still love God, but i wouldn't bother working for him anymore. I love my wife and i've been helping out around the house whle she is working on long hours. Love her or not, if i knew we had, say a maid , and that all those dishes were going to be done anyways, i would spend my time enjoying the day instead.


I disagree with you here, Rev. If Calvinism is true, I too, would still love God, but I would continue to work for Him and serve Him still. Why? Because He has commanded me to do so. If the LORD asked you to do something for no other reason than that He wanted to see you do it, would you do it? I hope you would. After all, He is still our Lord. The fact that He allows us to take part in leading someone to salvation is a gift in and of itself (if anyone has ever had the privlege of leading someone to Christ then you know exactly what I mean) and is one for which we will be rewarded for. Do not forget that our work for the Lord WILL be rewarded.

So whether Calvinism is true or not, does not make Jesus any less my precious Lord and Savior. So I would continue to serve Him in obedience to His word.

Destro you make a good point, but for an immature christian or a lost person i'm not sure it would matter. We have both had a personal relationship with Christ that has grown over time and we trust him more. I do think I would do something if the Lord asks even if predestination was true, but several years ago as a young Christian or before I was saved? if i knew i was going to Heaven or Hell either way? Probably not, that would make God seem so unfair that i wouldn't bother to have a relationship with him. That's just the truth. I don't have to worry about it much because I don't see this in Scripture at all. Just because God knows something doesn't mean he directly causes it.

I just couldn't imagine the personally cruelty of never being chosen. Granted i've not been perfect but i believe in Christ as my savior and have changed my life around him. God has been the motivation for my major moves and decisions in life. To know a gave up a good college earlier on? or stayed in a terrible marriage? or am still pursue a degree that is ministry based? and God would just send me to hell cause he didn't pick me? it slams in the face of the Character of God and lost people would stay far away from him. Part of what is so amazing about creator is GRACE. predestination completely takes that off the table. He isn't forgiving, or offering a gift, God would just be picking out favorites.

1 John 4 talks about God being love, how could that be loving?



I too have heard Calvinism is on the up swing again in School and in the Baptist circles. I think it's dangerous and could be very harmful to a denomination that already has a lot of problems (Last i checked it's the fastest shrinking denomination, southern baptist that is, with Pentecostals now the fastest growing and set to be the biggest, when my pc gets here i'll share some links with you all i found neat.)
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Re: Predestination

Postby MacLeaper on Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:54 pm

If predestination is true, then God is just picking out people He likes best- and The Bible says God is no respector of persons. It also says that God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. God has given us Jesus to pay for all our sins- and He died and rose for everyone once for all. The invitation has always been to everyone- to whosoever will. Yet even so, they are chosen from the foundation of the world. John 6:44 says that all who come to God are drawn by Him first. But of course, God draws in everyone's heart to come to repentance (Revelation 3:20)- it's just a matter of who chooses to respond with faith in Christ. Hopefully it would be everyone. Sadly, I know that's not true. I wish we'd all been ready...
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me." - Jesus Christ (John 14:6)

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Re: Predestination

Postby destros_elite on Mon May 10, 2010 12:49 pm

Wowboy wrote:I'm about to dive into Calvin's biblical commentaries, so I'll let you know what he has to say on that.

I kind of think of it like this:

If I take an open briefcase filled with neatly arranged $100 bills and set it on a streetcorner, I have a foreknowledge that someone will take it. It is still their choice to do so, but I know it's going to happen. The way predestination is often presented would be more akin to setting the briefcase down, and then picking it up and forcibly handing it to someone in lieu of others.


Just wondering if you found anything out.
TheDoctor: "Restricted access, no unauthorized personnel." Hmmm... [opens lock with sonic screwdriver]
Amy: That's breaking and entering!
TheDoctor: What did I break? Sonicing and entering,totally different[/u]
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Re: Predestination

Postby destros_elite on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:44 pm

I was skimming through the old posts and re-read through this entire thread. It was amazing to me how views change over the years with deep study and examination (my initial response on this thread was nearly three and a half years ago!). I have a better understanding of reformed theology and actually believe that it is scripture. However, the Lord also says "whosoever will...". To me, neither being chosen of God or choosing God can be thrown out as they are both scripturaly based. I will share more later and hope you all share your thouvghts all these years later, but for now it's bedtime for the kiddos. Duty calls! :D
TheDoctor: "Restricted access, no unauthorized personnel." Hmmm... [opens lock with sonic screwdriver]
Amy: That's breaking and entering!
TheDoctor: What did I break? Sonicing and entering,totally different[/u]
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Re: Predestination

Postby RevSears on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:14 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rVNF-e7rI

When you can give this a watch!

What few points i thought I could agree with Calvanism on it's clear i can't (not that I can go all for armanisim either) It just goes to show you the flaws in man made isms.
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