Disturbing article find, Unbelieving pastors!

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Disturbing article find, Unbelieving pastors!

Postby RevSears on Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:54 am


I'll be honest, i've seen prominant Christians who could be considered "practical atheists" but pastors who are outright unbelievers?

I bumped into this article and was quickly distrubed. I got there trhough a link on foxnews. The article itself worries me, and the reponses as well. It seems the readership at least, might not match up with what a site called beliefnet would lead you to believe. The article is about a study that is clearly written by atheists. But some of the qoutes, along with the comments at the bottom worry me.

hello? the bible has different versions? B.S. Textual varients do not effect doctrine. Even if you took out all of Mark 16 and other disputed passages, you still have the whole message intact! all doctrines and all history there!
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Re: Disturbing article find, Unbelieving pastors!

Postby chad_ghost on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:29 pm

Yikes! It would be like a veterinarian that hates animals?

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Re: Disturbing article find, Unbelieving pastors!

Postby lobo on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:08 pm

How many times has the Bible been used so that one group can exert control over another? Has anyone seen "The Book of Eli"? It's been happening for hundreds of years.

There are "Christians" who live as athiests, and there are athiests who pass themselves off as Christians. For some, it is a job that they go to.


18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

'No Man is an Island'

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Matthew 18
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


I would venture to say that pastors who lose faith are like soldiers who become disenchanted with battle, or law enforcement who become callous and uncaring. When you lose friends, see people beaten/raped, see abuse, wonder if the message you give has reached anyone, it's not hard to lose "faith".

God's Word never returns void.


Where the head leads, the body follows. If the husband can be taken down / made incompetent, what happens to the family? If the preacher falls, what happens to the congregation?


http://www.sermoncentral.com/article.as ... 07&ac=true

If I were the Devil
…this is how I would attack pastors

by Greg Stier

If I were the devil I’d get pastors to build great big churches where they could teach nice things about a nice God. I’d make sure they avoided the dangerous God of the Bible. I’d get them to preach a whole lot about the patience and kindness of God and leave out his holiness and justice. Or I’d get them to preach about the holiness of God to the exclusion of his love and grace. I’d have them preach a one-sided message about a one-sided God instead of the breadth of who He is.

If I were the devil I’d tempt pastors to buy into a distorted gospel of prosperity. I’d convince them to preach a message of "God wants you to be rich" while much of the world dies of starvation. I’d take them deeper into a downward spiral of heresy and greed. Eventually I’d get them to empty the bank accounts of bent, old Bettys and blue collar Bobs to finance their Lexus-driving, $3,000 suit wearing, mansion-dwelling lifestytle of "holy" hedonism. I’d help them cloak their message of greed with a "whatever you donate to this ministry will be multiplied one hundred fold in your own bank account" giving promise.

If I were the devil I’d convince pastors to stay stuck in their old ways. I’d convince them in the power of tradition and tradition alone. I’d challenge them not to think outside the box when it comes to the way they communicate to this generation. I’d motivate them to preach purely theological sermons that were truth heavy and application light. I’d push them to make every week a creedal download with little to no practical application. If this approach didn’t work with pastors, I’d do my best to convince them to trash tradition and preach purely practical sermons with no theology at all. I’d sell them on the lie that it was all about their illustrations, their jokes and their five steps to whatever. I’d challenge them to do this without truly preaching the Word or teaching theology at all. The last thing I’d want them to do is do what St. Peter, St. Paul and St. James did: preach doctrine and application in a balanced way. I would never want these pastors’ congregations to realize how practical and relevant the Word of God is to their everyday lives.

If I were the devil I’d especially attack male pastors through sexual temptation. I’d start “innocently” enough through their thought lives. I’d remind them of that one drop dead gorgeous woman in their congregation who laughs at all his jokes and stares a little too intently when he preaches. I’d then slowly get him to quietly obsess over her and secretly wish that something happened where they could suddenly be together, alone. I’d convince him that it was okay to counsel her in private, that nothing was going to happen. And then I’d do everything in my power to make sure it did. For the pastors who didn’t fall for this more obvious strategy I’d use a secondary strategy of internet pornography. I would create an endless cycle of guilt and quietly seeking forgiveness from God to slowly rob the integrity and dignity from his public preaching and his private soul.

If I were the devil I’d convince pastors that they didn’t need accountability from their closest friends inside the church. I’d persuade them that they needed to keep up the facade and not fess up to their inner struggles. I’d convince them to avoid baring their deepest spiritual battles, hurts and sins to a close, godly friend whom they trust. I’d use scare tactics to accomplish this. Things like, “If word leaked out of your personal struggles you could lose face, influence and, maybe even, your job.” I’d get them to have close friends but not too close. I’d have them buy off on the age-old lie that a pastor cannot have a best friend in their own church. In doing this I’d be helping them to perpetuate a dual life, the fake life they proclaim truth from behind the pulpit and the real life they live when nobody else is watching, listening or applauding. The hypocrisy would make me smile.

If I were the devil I’d convince pastors that they had to do everything. I’d challenge them to lead all the meetings, do all the counseling, oversee all the marrying, do all the burying, to be involved in all the everything of the church. I’d remind them that the former pastor of their church did all these same things. I’d coerce him through the expectations of the old guard in his congregation. I would do everything in my power to get these pastors to avoid Ephesians 4 verses 11 and 12. The last thing I would want them to realize and embrace is that their primary responsibility is to equip God’s people to do the work of the ministry. If they were to read and apply these dangerous verses they could lose their inner sense of self-importance and probably gain ten, twenty or maybe fifty times their spiritual impact on the congregation. That would make me mad if I were the devil.

If I were the devil I’d undermine the typical pastor’s confidence in the Word of God. I’d get them to believe the lie that something so ancient could never truly change a tech savvy generation that is so sophisticated. I’d do this by raising up an army of brilliant philosopher "theologians" who would slowly and subtly undermine the faith of these pastors in the reliability and relevance of Scripture. I’d use these theosophers to communicate fine sounding arguments through cool conversations, hip books and brilliant blogs. I’d use all these tools and more to create doubt about the truth of God’s infallible Word, the relevancy of truth and the power of the message of the cross. Oftentimes I would come at these pastors sideways through another pastor or the youth leader on staff to make pastors feel like they're preaching an obsolete message to a too-cool-for-school crowd. I’d go beyond getting them to change their methods of communication, I’d convince them that the Scriptures, the gospel and the truth is powerless to deeply and wholly transform a soul. I’d use the vast intellect of my blogging pawns to create anger, confusion, discouragement or distraction in the minds of ministry leaders. I’d unleash a new brand of repackaged gnostic pietism on the body of Christ and label it relevant.

If I were the devil I’d convince pastors not to preach the gospel weekly. I’d try to persuade them that the service schedule was too packed with music, sermon points and announcements to take a few minutes out to present the most important message in the world. I’d soothe them with thoughts like, “The church is for Christians” or “You elude to the gospel enough in the flow of your weekly sermon” or “You present the gospel on those special outreach weekends” or whatever. I’d try to distract them from realizing what the early church embraced, that the gospel was “the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes….”

If I were the devil, when these pastors decided to actually share the gospel, I’d have them preach a message that sounds like the gospel but is really no gospel at all. I’d get them to make the sinner "say a prayer" whether he truly understands and embraces the gospel or not. I’d have them challenge those who are unregenerate in their audiences to commit totally, try harder, submit fully, and surrender all. I’d get them to preach anything and everything but faith alone in Christ alone for the salvation of their souls. I’d empty a great word like "repent" of its true meaning and fill it with the filthy rags of good deeds cloaked as the gospel of grace. I’d deceive them into evangelizing with a self-centered gospel that focuses more on what the sinner does than on what Christ has done.

If I were the devil I’d get pastors to tolerate youth leaders who teach more devotionally and less theologically. I’d convince them that it was okay if their teens weren’t learning theology and how relevant it was to the everyday life of the average teenager. I’d challenge them to encourage their youth leaders to give safe talks about safe things, things that teenagers related to, enjoyed and understood. I’d encourage them to avoid complex theology like the Trinity, the inerrancy of Scripture, justification by faith and the like so that they "don’t lose" their teenagers. Instead I’d motivate them to embrace youth leaders who serve McNuggets of truth, deep fried in fun and dipped in sweet sauce so that their kids don’t get bored and their parents (aka “tithers”) don’t get mad and leave the church.

If I were the devil I’d get good churches to do lots of good things. I’d get them to build houses for the needy, give food to the poor and reach out to the hurting. I’d encourage them to do all of these things in the name of Jesus but without ever actually sharing the gospel message to those they serve. I’d motivate them to "hack at the leaves of evil" and feel good about it, not letting them realize that they have left “the root of evil” intact. I’d convince these pastors to convince their churches that preaching the gospel was action and service alone. I’d paint a picture of Jesus that only served the poor’s physical needs and leave out his drive to fulfill their deeper, bigger, spiritual needs. If these pastors insisted on preaching the gospel I’d get them to focus only on the proclamation of the message and convince them that serving the hurting in their community was not important at all.

If I were the devil I’d attack the writer of these words with his own inadequacies. I’d remind him of every time he has messed up and failed. I’d show him his own hypocrisy. I’d convince him that he had no right to write such judgmental words. I’d challenge him to take the kinder, gentler course of typing safe, funny things. If that didn’t work I’d convince him that he is somehow better than any struggling pastor.

But I’m not the devil. Satan is. And he doesn’t need any help. He is already doing a very good job at attacking pastors. Don’t you think?

If you were the devil how would you attack pastors?
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